Eclipse || Net Beans || IntelliJ || Other

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Eclipse || Net Beans || IntelliJ || Other

Post by BIT0122-Amit on Sat Feb 20, 2010 11:26 am

Well, which one do you prefer?
The 3 IDE I mentioned above are the most popular ones. But if there is any other besides these 3, please mention it.
And I would like to know why you like Eclipse, or why you like Net Beans. Why do you prefer using IntelliJ over Evlipse, the advantages and disadvantages you are having by using your favorite IDE.. etc.

In my case, I have used all 3 of them, (intelliJ community edition though, and not for too long either)
And my favorite is

Eclipse!!
why?
Eclipse's auto fix suggestions are superb compared to NetBeans.
Eclipse EE has built in Browser.
Eclipse's Window is much more clearer and looks kind of broader compared to NetBeans.
It looks better than IntelliJ very very funny
Eclipse is awesome as a learning tool as you can learn from the autofix suggestions.for example, I tried to use some layout modifications in.. an inconvenient way, and got an error. Now, NetBeans kept saying that there was a problem, but what was the type of the problem.. I had no Idea as it showed nothing in particular. Just an error. that's all. So I searched through internet for quite some time. With No result(hard to get one when you don't even know where the problem is).
However, when I pasted the same code in Eclipse, it pin pointed the problem with suggestions.
And I had no problem fixing it, and thus, learning how to use that particular part in future.
In Eclipse, you can search through all the preferences but in Net Beans you can search through most of the preferences, not all.
Also, it offers a lot of code-templates, and a lot more compared to NetBeans.
Eclipse recognizes the @author part in JavaDoc :p I didn't see Netbeans showing anything like that though.

Disadvantage of eclipse:
Most of the times, its add-ons do not integrate well.
It doesn't show automatic suggestions unless you press ctrl+space.
Its JavaFX plug-in is not exactly great compared to NetBeans Beat up Sad
And last of all, it well... errr.... I can't find any :S
Eclipse rules!! rock on!

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Re: Eclipse || Net Beans || IntelliJ || Other

Post by BIT0104-ANIK on Tue Mar 02, 2010 11:18 pm

i could not even browse while running netbeans in my lab pc. it makes pc so slow that all you can do is just click on something and take a short break for sleeping and then return to get the result of your click.
throw it away if your pc configuration is the latest one..:p

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Re: Eclipse || Net Beans || IntelliJ || Other

Post by BIT0122-Amit on Tue Mar 02, 2010 11:28 pm

BIT0104-ANIK wrote:i could not even browse while running netbeans in my lab pc. it makes pc so slow that all you can do is just click on something and take a short break for sleeping and then return to get the result of your click.
throw it away if your pc configuration is the latest one..:p

Ha ha Very Happy That didn't answer which one do you prefer Anik :p
And probably you installed Netbeans whole in your pc with some unnecessary modules. if you did deactivate those modules, perhaps you would've experienced netbeans in a better way.
But still, net beans in slow Neutral

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Re: Eclipse || Net Beans || IntelliJ || Other

Post by BIT0122-Amit on Tue Nov 16, 2010 5:50 pm

BUMP

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Re: Eclipse || Net Beans || IntelliJ || Other

Post by BIT0130-Shakkhor on Wed Nov 17, 2010 2:52 am

Which one i prefer is an excellent question Smile because which one is better is a pointless one. It doesn't really have an answer. I use both Eclipse and Netbeans, for two different purposes. Tried IntelliJ and Oracle JDeveloper once, but JDeveloper is slow even in my PC (C2Q Q9550 2.83, 4GB, Intel G45). IntelliJ looks shitty, but i has the best auto-compile and refactoring feature available out the. Unfortunately it wasn't free so i didn't get to test it that well. So I'm gonna post some opinions about Eclipse and Netbeans focusing on some specific criteria.

Speed
Well, many of us are under the impression that Eclipse is faster. That however, is not true. I did some test on my own with both of them. The basic Netbeans Java package is slower than the basic eclipse J2EE package. But the reason for this is probably because Netbeans loads a lot more plugins than Eclipse does. The full Netbeans package is 380MB with all the bells and whistle, which supports pretty much anything out of the box, but the full Eclipse package (Eclipse doesn't have a official full package, so created a package with similar functionalities as Netbeans full package) with exact same language features is, well, about 1.2 GB. And if you try to load Eclipse with that many plugins, It'll eat up about 1 GB of memory instantly, and the loading time is, well, I've never managed to load Eclipse, because it crashes. On the other hand, Netbeans loads all of them pretty effortlessly.

Stabilty
There's no question about the stability of Eclipse. Of-course, sometimes the third party plugins may cause it to crash. But the official packages are extremely stable. Although Eclipse did have a bug in the Helios release (involving autocomplete), it was fixed in SR1. Netbeans however, isn't as rock solid as Eclipse. The previous releases frequently crashed, though the newer ones (after 6) almost never crash. So they're pretty stable right now.

Code Assistance
This is where Eclipse really triumphs. Like Amit said, the autofix isn't present in Netbeans. Eclipse has a better refactoring support. So if you try to rename something, it won't mess up your whole code. Another thing is the auto-compile feature, which on the fly compiles your code as you type and gives you instant feedback on errors. Netbeans did try to implement something like this, but Eclipse is much better.

Usability
The usability of Eclipse is a hell. You'll have to spend more time configuring Eclipse, than working with your project. There are so many plugins for one task that the programmer is left confused. And the most ironic thing is, you're left on your own to choose the best plugin. Netbeans however, requires much less configuring, and in most of the cases, it configures itself, and configures itself correctly. Netbeans provides everything out-of-the-box, and integrates seamlessly with anything you throw at it.

User-view
Eclipse is more tool oriented, where Netbeans is more programmer oriented. It's easier to code using Netbeans. For example, if you want to create a JSF project, you can't do it using J2EE Project. You'll have to open a Dynamic Web Project to do this. These tool oriented view is sometimes very confusing. Netbeans however, is much more programmer oriented, and let's the IDE to shape itself how you think, instead of shaping your thoughts to match the IDE.

Plug-in Support
This is a trivial question. Eclipse is by far the best IDE in terms of plug-in support. It's essentially built on a plug-in oriented architecture. I'd say it's second only to Firefox, which is not a IDE at all. So if you're doing a highly customized job, Eclipse will be your only choice. It has millions of plugins, though not all of them work well. Netbeans does have a plugin support, but the plug-in base is nothing compared to Netbeans. For example, if you want to develop Android applications, Eclipse may be your only choice.

Misc
Eclipse requires you to write your Ant script by yourself. So if you need a custom build-file, but don't know Ant scripting, you're in trouble.

Netbeans has an excellent Swing GUI designer (Matisse). Eclipse have some tools for GUI designing, but they're nothing compared to Matisse.

The best Eclipse plugins may not always be free (for example Zend).

Netbeans doesn't have any file import feature. It's very annoying sometimes.


Finally, which one do i prefer? Netbeans. Why? Because it's easier to use for me. Eclipse is somewhat too flexible for me. Netbeans seem to provide everything i use out-of-the-box.

Which one should you use? Excellent question. Give both of them a try, and use the one you like the most. Although i prefer Netbeans, i use both of them, to harvest the strengths of both.


Edit: This is also available in my blog


Last edited by BIT0130-Shakkhor on Sat Nov 27, 2010 5:10 am; edited 2 times in total (Reason for editing : added reference)

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Re: Eclipse || Net Beans || IntelliJ || Other

Post by BIT0122-Amit on Wed Nov 17, 2010 3:10 am

Except some typos,
excellent summary Shakkhor Smile rep++
And please don't use colors :p Use bold, italic or underline instead. There might be a theme in future where your coloured text might turn invisible.
I hope you do understand my point of view.

Anyway, when I made that topic, we were only learning about programming languages, IDEs, and what not?
And now, we understand that we can not simply declare any IDE as a better choice. It depends on the user.
Try them. See whether the tool you use feels satisfactory to you. That should be the best IDE, for you.

Anyway, in one place, Netbeans used to triumph. It is auto completion Razz

In regular eclipse, you need to press ctrl+space to view the available suggestions, whereas in netbeans, it starts suggesting things as soon as you press a single key.

But thanks to one of the inventions I made by accident, eclipse is way more better choice for me compared to Netbeans.

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Re: Eclipse || Net Beans || IntelliJ || Other

Post by BIT0101-rayhan on Thu Nov 18, 2010 3:32 pm

well.... various issues are discussed here..... i want to tell something from some different perspective....

as a rookie java programmer, neither eclipse/netbeans is a good choice.... those who have introduction with C++ IDEs can feel at home with jcreator.... but really it is a low level IDE. and netbeans is the best choice for them, as netbeans configures itself away better than eclipse and it does what a programmer want to be have done....think of creating a java ee or web project .... what to do when it is netbeans and what to do when u create that using eclipse....i never successfully ran a java program using eclipse when i was rookie but i need none's help executing java program using netbeans. it is so simple....

as programmers with a decent experience might have two choices then. if they are developing straightforward java applications, then netbeans is better but if they want to develop highly customized java apps then u have no other option than using eclipse

i suggest all java programmers to have a decent experience with eclipse as in most workplaces, eclipse is the default IDE. even their code engins, customized pluggins are also bound to eclipse.

each ide has its drawbacks. eclipse main advantage and disadvantage is its pluggin support. u can get loads of pluggins for eclipse but it is the thing that can make ur eclipse a mess.

for the speed issue, eclipse is away slower than netbeans..... if u have any doubt, read Shakkhor's post upward.

for stability issue, eclipse is better. i never crashed eclipse while working, if it crashes, then it will in loading time. but once in my life, i saw netbeans crashed during the time i was coding .. OMG.

if u want to develop desktop apps, u can use netbeans as it has a strong GUI development tools built in, u can use although eclipse, u can use SWT, which is bot compatibale with netbeans. for ur information, eclipse itself is built in SWT. :p

for java EE and web, netbeans have so much built in features like apache, glassfish, spring, hibernate.... but in eclipse , u have to download and configure it urself.

for java ME, netbeans has no contender... :p

for C++, again netbeans has no contender, try configuring eclipse with C++.. u will see... :p

for java FX, again, netbeans has no contender....

for PHP, again, netbeans is better.. as it manages both html, css, jscript and php scripts altogether. u may try with eclipse, it will not even highlight and indent html and css scripts.. damn.... but i suggest ppls to use zend when u will do php ......

and last but not the least, i use netbeans for java, java ee & web, c++, php.....i am not such a high class java programmer who can create lots of apps in customized methods and using pluggins.....choose which one suits u....
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Re: Eclipse || Net Beans || IntelliJ || Other

Post by BIT0122-Amit on Thu Nov 18, 2010 8:19 pm

You know, there is a saying. You can not learn walking, if you are afraid of falling.

It is true that you have to configure everything in eclipse yourself. Manually.
And NetBeans does that for you, automatically.

But considering that I started using eclipse when I started learning Java, I learned a whole lot more than java, just by configuring and integrating things. And these things are mighty useful.

For example, Apache. Netbeans automatically configures it. But for eclipse, you need to show the path, configure it, and what not?

And you eventually learn how to configure Apache, and can use it wherever. Because you know the basic of all things related to Apache.

Now a days, I feel like this is how it should be. If people can not learn the management of basic things on their own, maybe they should not try learning the advanced things!

Anyway, Both eclipse and java started as Java IDEs (this is my own idea). Eclipse's users made the plugins. and Netbeans started adopting new things.

About apache? I do not remember downloading anything in Eclipse EE. I just had to configure it.

C++? Actually, extreme C programmers will say either vim, or emacs are better compared to netbeans.

I will have to try using netbeans with php before commenting, but I can assure you that with aptana and PDT, I felt no problem coding.

JavaFX is another issue though. Netbeans was developed by Sun, JavaFX is something created by Sun, so obviously, they have the initial advantage.

But with time, eclipse FX might turn out to be a mighty contender.


In my opinion, eclipse shall prevail over Netbeans. Why? Because it has a wide community. Its users develop it, and its plugins as well. Making it way more adaptable. And eclipse singly handles languages more than any other IDE. Netbeans on the other hand, supports a smaller array of languages. Which makes eclipse a better choice for any programmer.

Because once you learn using eclipse, you can use it for any language you want.

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Re: Eclipse || Net Beans || IntelliJ || Other

Post by BIT0130-Shakkhor on Thu Nov 18, 2010 11:56 pm

BIT0122-Amit wrote:But considering that I started using eclipse when I started learning Java, I learned a whole lot more than java, just by configuring and integrating things.
Personally, I think it's a massive waste of time. Let me share an experience with you. I once tried to create a simple OpenGL program, which required adding some additional libraries to my project. With my little C knowledge, i didn't really have a clear idea what libraries were. So googling adding those libraries took me almost a week, but the project itself took only 3 days. Let me share another experience. I tried to build a GUI using Qt about a month ago. The Qt IDE (Netbeans C++) configured Qt automatically, so within 5 minutes, i was ready to roll out. After some time, i learned how the Qt build system works, what is meta-object compiler etc. Now i know how to configure and tune the advanced Qt features. But most importantly, i managed to produce a output faster.

Developing is all about output. I'd say Eclipse has a major drawback in this area, because eventually you'll learn "a whole lot more than java" without "configuring and integrating things".
BIT0122-Amit wrote:C++? Actually, extreme C programmers will say either vim, or emacs are better compared to netbeans.
Dunno about C. But the C++ in Netbeans is pretty impressive. The debugger integration is awesome and GTK, FLTK, Qt and OpenGL integrates with it better than VC++.
BIT0122-Amit wrote:but I can assure you that with aptana and PDT, I felt no problem coding.
Hmmm. This I've used too. It's fairly good. Give Netbeans a try someday. It's only 30MB (compared to 121+30 MB for PDT+Aptana) and has comparable features. However, size really doesn't matter and from what I've heard, Zend is the best PHP IDE which is built on the Eclipse platform. It isn't free though.
BIT0122-Amit wrote:In my opinion, eclipse shall prevail over Netbeans.
Facts state otherwise. It looks like Eclipse is losing popularity, and Netbeans, though not gaining popularity, has a very stable user base.
Reference: Google Trends
Also, Developer.com's "Product of the Year" is dominated by Netbeans for the past few years.
Reference:
Product of the Year 2009
Product of the Year 2008
(Developer.com is the second largest Java community after Oracle TechNet and third largest overall after MSDN ant Oracle TechNet)

It is more likely that none of them will "prevail" simply because Eclipse is a 40 million USD project financed by IBM and backed by companies like Zend Technologies and Google, and Netbeans is developed by the developers of Java itself. Ofcourse either of them may "prevail" in the future, but for now, it looks like the Netbeans platform has the upper hand.
BIT0122-Amit wrote:Its users develop it, and its plugins as well.
That should explain why a lot of the Eclipse plugins are so unstable.
BIT0122-Amit wrote:And eclipse singly handles languages more than any other IDE.
Again, i don't know about all languages, but i can tell you about some languages supported by Eclipse.

C/C++: Debugger is broken. Adding libraries is very difficult. Doesn't show the line number even in case of compile errors (as of Galileo, dunno about Helios). Netbeans supports C++ fairly well. Requires the MSYS build system, but once you install MSYS, NB will configure itself automatically. Eclipse CDT is hardly usable compared to Netbeans C++.

PHP: PDT+Aptana is a good choice. But Netbeans PHP is simpler and provides similar features out-of-the-box. Zend maybe a better choice for PHP, but it's not free.

Perl: Didn't managed to integrate the EPIC plugin correctly. Shows a lot of errors i didn't understand, i guess it'll require more "configuring". So i used Padre. Netbeans Perl support is limited, but the limited features seem to work fairly well.

These are the situations of the most popular languages. I wonder what'll happen if i try some other less popular languages with Eclipse!

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Re: Eclipse || Net Beans || IntelliJ || Other

Post by BIT0122-Amit on Fri Nov 19, 2010 12:51 am

Nice to know about your personal experience.

However, are you expecting to go out there(business production level)and develop without the prior knowledge related to libraries or other things?

When we develop at this stage, we use pre defined libraries, and what not?
And when we are at industry, we make those libraries for our usage.

You need to gain those prior knowledge at one point. Better gain it as fast as possible.

"And eclipse singly handles languages more than any other IDE"

Eclipse does not emphasize on one language, but rather a whole lot more. Considering that, it is might not be best for any specific language, but you can not push it away either.

In industry, you need to learn and use more than one languages. In that case, eclipse comes out useful.

About popular languages, based on the statistics of year 2009 and 2010, the top six languages are:


Java
Eclipse and netbeans, both are good choice if you are considering pure Java.

C/C++
People use mainly Vim, Emacs, sometimes Qt, netbeans. rarely Eclipse.

C#
Eclipse and netbeans are out of question.

PHP
eclipse, netbeans good. According to all, zend best.

Python.
Probably pycharm(cross), pyscript(windows) are best out there.
But eclipse+pydev dominates over netbeans.

Perl is sinking over time.

Source: http://www.tiobe.com/content/paperinfo/tpci/index.html
Can eclipse, as a general tool, stand up to all of them?

Yup.

About the trend and popularity, I went to google trend, and saw this:



Erm, higher value in graph = more traffic = more popularity? Neutral

That should explain why a lot of the Eclipse plugins are so unstable.

Should also explain why the number of good plugins is more than the number of all plugins in netbeans.

And hey. It is a open community. Everyone makes plugins. Does not mean everyone use every plugin in eclipse lol!

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Re: Eclipse || Net Beans || IntelliJ || Other

Post by BIT0130-Shakkhor on Fri Nov 19, 2010 3:15 am

BIT0122-Amit wrote:However, are you expecting to go out there(business production level)and develop without the prior knowledge related to libraries or other things?
If I'm not wrong, we we're talking about "when we started learning Java" (check the comment i quoted on). "Business production level" is out of question here. When I "go out there" i'm pretty sure I'll have the "prior knowledges". How? Well, I've explained that in my previous post (the part where i shared my personal experience). lol!

For an expert, IDE is a personal preference. I think you'd agree on that.
BIT0122-Amit wrote:Considering that, it is might not be best for any specific language, but you can not push it away either.
What's the point? Give me one reason why someone may wanna use Eclipse/Netbeans over VC++? Or for any language other than Java or PHP? I mean, does it really matter how many languages one IDE support?
BIT0122-Amit wrote:Perl is sinking over time.
Agreed. Actually these are the only languages I've tried. Never tried Python so i shouldn't comment about which IDE is best. No
BIT0122-Amit wrote:Can eclipse, as a general tool, stand up to all of them?
From the data you've provided, same can be said about Netbeans. Then again, what's the point using either of them when we have better options?
BIT0122-Amit wrote:Erm, higher value in graph = more traffic = more popularity?
Exactly.

I'm sorry, this deserved an explanation. Companies like IDC and Gartner uses Google Trends for market analysis. Let me explain why. Let's say, you're an Eclipse user. So you'll search for how to integrate and configure lets say, C# in Eclipse. This will generate traffic. Same can be said about some other search term. My hypothesis disagrees, but it looks like the actual market share is proportionate to userbase in most common cases. You should try it sometimes with (Windows, Ubuntu), (ATI, Nvidia), (Nokia, Sony Ericsson) etc. You'll understand why more traffic means more users.

Now, this may not be pinpoint accurate, but for a crude conclusion like "Eclipse is losing popularity" can be made quite correctly from this data.

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Re: Eclipse || Net Beans || IntelliJ || Other

Post by BIT0122-Amit on Fri Nov 19, 2010 3:33 am

If I'm not wrong, we we're talking about "when we started learning Java"

Indeed. But as you might've ignored, I also said,

And these things are mighty useful.

They are the basic of basics. And the quicker you get acquainted with them, the better opportunity will be there for you to go to the advanced stages.

Think of it in this way.your suggestion is somewhat like

"I will go to the 3rd floor at first, then go back to 2nd floor, and then will understand what exactly I was doing at 3rd floor. and then I can advance to 4th floor through 3rd floor".

What's the point? Give me one reason why someone may wanna use Eclipse/Netbeans over VC++? Or for any language other than Java or PHP? I mean, does it really matter how many languages one IDE support?

Not exactly. But I think I explained that in the next para.

Eclipse does not emphasize on one language, but rather a whole lot more. Considering that, it is might not be best for any specific language, but you can not push it away either.

In industry, you need to learn and use more than one languages. In that case, eclipse comes out useful.

Maybe you are suggesting that when you need to work with php, jscript, html, and python simultaneously, you are going to use Zend, Some JScript IDE, Aptana, and PyScript?

Not just that. All of them use different structures.
But when you use eclipse, you learn using it once. And can use it for any language. That is what I was talking about.


I'm sorry, this deserved an explanation. Companies like IDC and Gartner uses Google Trends for market analysis. Let me explain why. Let's say, you're an Eclipse user. So you'll search for how to integrate and configure lets say, C# in Eclipse. This will generate traffic. Same can be said about some other search term. My hypothesis disagrees, but it looks like the actual market share is proportionate to userbase in most common cases. You should try it sometimes with (Windows, Ubuntu), (ATI, Nvidia), (Nokia, Sony Ericsson) etc. You'll understand why more traffic means more users.


Erm, there is a slight misunderstanding. I attached the picture because the link you provided was opposing what you said earlier about eclipse.

Eclipse is losing popularity



Or is it that they count traffic downwards?

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Re: Eclipse || Net Beans || IntelliJ || Other

Post by BIT0130-Shakkhor on Fri Nov 19, 2010 4:27 am

BIT0122-Amit wrote:They are the basic of basics. And the quicker you get acquainted with them, the better opportunity will be there for you to go to the advanced stages.
That's your personal experience. Mine, I've already shared Smile
BIT0122-Amit wrote:"I will go to the 3rd floor at first, then go back to 2nd floor, and then will understand what exactly I was doing at 3rd floor. and then I can advance to 4th floor through 3rd floor".
Yes, if it's easier and faster. Think about it. Did you really know how to execute a query in command line when you first used MySQL in Java? Because i didn't. I'm pretty much sure most of us didn't. We didn't know how to to manually configure MySQL, PHPMyAdmin or Apache. But eventually, we learned. Didn't we? It was easier that way. It's always easier this way.
BIT0122-Amit wrote:Not just that. All of them use different structures.
But when you use eclipse, you learn using it once. And can use it for any language. That is what I was talking about.
Same can be said about Netbeans.

Personally, i tried to use C++ and Java in one project once. I wanted to create a custom launcher using the JNI. First i tried Eclipse but the C++ support was awful. So i tried using Netbeans. It wasn't that good either. Finally i got the job done with CodeBlocks. Which wasn't that easy either. I think, if you have to use that many different languages in one project (which, I'd say is a very unrealistic or atleast rare situation), mate, you're totally doomed pale
BIT0122-Amit wrote:Or is it that they count traffic downwards?
LOL No. They count traffic upwards alright, but you interpreted it wrong.

Check the orange arrows. The leftmost arrow corresponds to a popularity of approx. 1.4, the rightmost one approx. 0.7.
I hope the misunderstanding is solved now Smile

I wonder if this debate will ever end lol!


Last edited by BIT0130-Shakkhor on Fri Nov 19, 2010 4:31 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : added a last line to the post)

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Re: Eclipse || Net Beans || IntelliJ || Other

Post by BIT0122-Amit on Fri Nov 19, 2010 4:45 am


Yes, if it's easier and faster. Think about it. Did you really know how to execute a query in command line when you first used MySQL in Java? Because i didn't. I'm pretty much sure most of us didn't. We didn't know how to to manually configure MySQL, PHPMyAdmin or Apache. But eventually, we learned. Didn't we? It was easier that way. It's always easier this way.

I guess we used two different approaches, and we both favor our own way.
And meh. I used all of them in ubuntu. I had to learn them the manual way before even executing those pesky queries pale

Same can be said about Netbeans.

Just before that, you were just concluding a crude conclusion... crudely.

Personally, i tried to use C++ and Java in one project once. I wanted to create a custom launcher using the JNI. First i tried Eclipse but the C++ support was awful. So i tried using Netbeans. It wasn't that good either. Finally i got the job done with CodeBlocks. Which wasn't that easy either. I think, if you have to use that many different languages in one project (which, I'd say is a very unrealistic or atleast rare situation), mate, you're totally doomed pale

I am not sure, but using Java with C has less probability than using Java and PHP together.

Using multiple languages in one single project is not uncommon.

Specially for any web development projects.

But still, people are doing these multiple language integrated projects with a Very Happy face never thinking about being doomed.

The only thing I can interpret from that graph are these:

1. Eclipse used to be really popular (2004-2007)
2. Netbeans became suddenly better and popular (2008)
3. Eclipse got even more better and more popular(2009-2010), but as netbeans continued to improve, the competition became tighter.

For netbeans,
The leftmost arrow corresponds to a popularity of approx. 0.5, the rightmost one approx. 0.3

So what you said does not mean netbeans has more popularity compared to eclipse. (Surprise! :/ )
I agree with that.

We can interpret that eclipse has lost popularity over the last few years.

But why? because netbeans began to improving.

But as the last two years suggest, we can also interpret that eclipse has began stabilizing, and netbeans needs a lot to improve on. And regardless of all awards, eclipse has remained the choice for programmers.

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Re: Eclipse || Net Beans || IntelliJ || Other

Post by BIT0130-Shakkhor on Fri Nov 19, 2010 5:26 am

BIT0122-Amit wrote:I am not sure, but using Java with C has less probability than using Java and PHP together.
Nope. C is frequently used with Java. Even Eclipse and Netbeans both have a custom launcher written i Java. Almost every Java program requires C for the launcher.
On the other hand, why on earth would someone wanna use PHP and Java in same project? Both of them are server side languages, but they run on different servers. I really don't understand why would someone wanna do that much trouble. For the Client side, Java maybe used. But still, it's far less likely.
BIT0122-Amit wrote:The leftmost arrow corresponds to a popularity of approx. 0.5, the rightmost one approx. 0.3
Yes, you can interpret it that way, or you can say that the graph is roughly flat, so Netbeans have a stable user base - Whichever makes more sense.
BIT0122-Amit wrote:So what you said does not mean netbeans has more popularity compared to eclipse. (Surprise! :/ )
Nope. I never said that Netbeans is more popular. I wonder why you're surprised. Netbeans before 5 was hardly usable compared to Eclipse from what I've heard. Eclipse used to be better and therefore, gained a large userbase.
BIT0122-Amit wrote:But as the last two years suggest, we can also interpret that eclipse has began stabilizing
Yes. That's true. That's because now you can't really tell which one is better. That's why the userbase is more or less constant for both IDEs. But hey, Eclipse did lost some popularity Exclamation
BIT0122-Amit wrote:And regardless of all awards, eclipse has remained the choice for programmers.
Doesn't really mean that Eclipse is better.

Finally, i wanna ask you one question. What'll you do if Eclipse 3.7 starts to configure itself automatically? You'll accept that or you'll reject that for the sake of "prior knowledge"? Neutral

This will be my last post on this topic. Otherwise, the debate will never end. Neutral

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Re: Eclipse || Net Beans || IntelliJ || Other

Post by BIT0122-Amit on Fri Nov 19, 2010 5:42 am

On the other hand, why on earth would someone wanna use PHP and Java in same project? Both of them are server side languages, but they run on different servers. I really don't understand why would someone wanna do that much trouble. For the Client side, Java maybe used. But still, it's far less likely.

Java gives you desktop applications, and php for the server thing. What I said was just an example which was based on your example about the trouble of using C and Java together.

Does not necessarily mean you can only point about the mixture of java and php, and forget about others.

Yes, you can interpret it that way, or you can say that the graph is roughly flat, so Netbeans have a stable user base - Whichever makes more sense.

I wonder if you could say that if this was year 2008.


Nope. I never said that Netbeans is more popular. I wonder why you're surprised. Netbeans before 5 was hardly usable compared to Eclipse from what I've heard. Eclipse used to be better and therefore, gained a large userbase.

Meh.. you were the last person i expected to misinterpret my sarcasm silent


Yes. That's true. That's because now you can't really tell which one is better. That's why the userbase is more or less constant for both IDEs. But hey, Eclipse did lost some popularity Exclamation

As I have already explained, Eclipse lost its popularity because Netbeans started getting better. (and some other IDEs began to emerge as well).
Neutral
Is it me or is it that eclipse users give the appropriate credits to netbeans while netbeans users try their best to look down on eclipse?

Looks to me that way :/
Does not necessarily mean that eclipse will stop getting better, will roll over, and then netbeans will prevail. Does it?


Doesn't really mean that Eclipse is better.
I really wonder about that Neutral A good product is the one that reaches the most population I heard Neutral
Remember the example about Econo Pen? It was a good product, but its distributors didn't think about improving it.

Finally, i wanna ask you one question. What'll you do if Eclipse 3.7 starts to configure itself automatically? You'll accept that or you'll reject that for the sake of "prior knowledge"?

Like I said, I gained those knowledge when the moment I installed them. And they came in handy when I configured them in eclipse.
I do not know about others, but I believe that if people needs to use apache in eclipse, they at least need to know about how to configure apache.


This will be my last post on this topic. Otherwise, the debate will never end.
LOL. Our debate drifted from "Is eclipse better than netbeans" to "I have better reasons to like (IDE) than yours!!" :p

But in the end, it is upto users whether to choose eclipse, or netbeans, or some other IDE.

BTW:/ that's very dirty playing you know. You debated only with me. and You said you are not going to post here anymore. what is the fault of others? :/

Off topic(which shall be removed):
I don't see anyone in irc nowadays. Neither I see any post in personality :/

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Re: Eclipse || Net Beans || IntelliJ || Other

Post by BIT0102-Mohaimin on Fri Nov 19, 2010 1:46 pm

I never heard of the third one, IntelliJ.
NetBeans has many more features than eclipse most of which I never need. Those "never needed" things would make me work slow.
Eclipse is the one I prefer. Lighter and easier.
Often I tried to work with NB, but I was lost!! I could not find what I need, however, I dont thing its a problem, its about being used to.
You can program C in eclipse also. You need to install some plugins I suppose.

NB has a GUI builder which eclipse does not have. I personally prefer creating UI manually. Of course it takes more time. But it makes the code your own. UI builders uses spring layout and group layout which you can not possibly handle manually. And another thing is, UI builders often makes the UI havier with unused components.

In many places NetBeans is refereed as a GUI builder, not an IDE. So, if you are talking about IDE, I am with Eclipse.

About Shakkor's 1st post,
I am not clear about the Usability part, what kind of configuration are you talking about? like while opening a project it asks for some configurations? If so, I dont thing its very time consuming.
The user-view part. Are you talking about the perspective thing in eclipse? The reason is simple. Eclipse does not load everything at a time. It makes you work faster.

Both Shakhor and Rayhan told that Eclipse is slower! I dont think so. You are saying eclipse load less things, I am saying, eclipse loads only the necessary things.

About the world-wide-popularity issues. The topic was about which one I prefer. So, let that thing go.


Last edited by BIT0122-Amit on Fri Nov 19, 2010 2:30 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Please avoid double posting. ^_^)
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Re: Eclipse || Net Beans || IntelliJ || Other

Post by BIT0101-rayhan on Fri Nov 19, 2010 2:43 pm

Dear Forum Founder, .... you r so emphasizing on the matter that eclipse is the best and it has no contender may be.... (the way u r saying...).. if it is.. then, there would be no such topic in the net about eclipse vs netbeans..: right????.. but unfortunately it is...:p.. why it is so??? because netbeans is worthy of comparing with eclipse....see the facts of microsoft visual studio pro .. Very Happy... none would dare to compare anything with it... does eclipse has the capability???? :p

eclipse started its journey in 2004 while netbeans v6.x started its journey in 2008.... u can see that eclipse has its 4 years advantages. thats why people from those time still lingering in eclipse and thats why eclipse has so many pluggins....but, look, what ever netbeans did in these 3 years, is just incredible.

u can dig ur head in net and only find the bottom line that netbeans is better ide if u want to develop straightforward low level customized apps, through provided built in features in an IDE. built in features in netbeans is better than that of eclipse, no doubt.

eclipse has more users simply as workplaces still can not switch from eclipse to netbeans. why??? if an organization wants to swap IDE, it willl have to stop its developing programs for at least 15 days....

eclipse is still better than netbeans in simply one fact and that is it has so many pluggins....and nothing else.....if u exclude pluggin factor, then u will see, netbeans will win most of the cases....
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Re: Eclipse || Net Beans || IntelliJ || Other

Post by BIT0122-Amit on Fri Nov 19, 2010 3:14 pm

Dear Beta release,
I think the rank I have does not have anything to do with the topic. So please, use my name to refer me.
Otherwise, I would consider that you have started getting personal due to the shortage of appropriate logic. Which is really unfortunate.

And perhaps you misunderstood me.
In my posts, I have already said that eclipse might not be the best in each individual languages. It is simply because while other IDEs focus on one single language, eclipse focuses on almost everything.

Eclipse does not emphasize on one language, but rather a whole lot more. Considering that, it is might not be best for any specific language

Apparently you also skipped what I wrote about the netbeans and eclipse comparison.

Eclipse lost its popularity because Netbeans started getting better.

Where exactly did I say that netbeans does not even compare with eclipse?

Also, in my post about the use of IDEs in 6 top most popular languages, I have already shown that both eclipse and netbeans are in a similar stage.

They are not the best, but eclipse has a better language adaptability.

u can dig ur head in net and only find the bottom line that netbeans is better ide if u want to develop straightforward low level customized apps, through provided built in features in an IDE. built in features in netbeans is better than that of eclipse, no doubt.

If you digged deeper, you would've realized that google shows us what we want to see. You wanted to find the superiority of netbeans as a better IDE. You found it. I am sure if you were an eclipse fan, you would say the same for eclipse.

eclipse has more users simply as workplaces still can not switch from eclipse to netbeans. why??? if an organization wants to swap IDE, it willl have to stop its developing programs for at least 15 days....

please check this link:
http://netbeans.org/kb/docs/java/import-eclipse.html

eclipse is still better than netbeans in simply one fact and that is it has so many pluggins....and nothing else.....if u exclude pluggin factor, then u will see, netbeans will win most of the cases....

Shakkhor, me, and mohaimin stated some more advantages though. please check the previous posts.


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Re: Eclipse || Net Beans || IntelliJ || Other

Post by BIT0130-Shakkhor on Fri Nov 19, 2010 5:13 pm

BIT0122-Amit wrote:Does not necessarily mean you can only point about the mixture of java and php, and forget about others
Exactly. That's why I'm saying for any arbitrary language A, Netbeans is equally good as Eclipse.
BIT0122-Amit wrote:I wonder if you could say that if this was year 2008.
I can say that both of them lost popularity to some third party, i guess? Neutral
BIT0122-Amit wrote:Is it me or is it that eclipse users give the appropriate credits to netbeans while netbeans users try their best to look down on eclipse?
Speculation. I'm talking about facts here.
Also, define with example ""eclipse users" and "netbeans users". I'm not sure which one i am because i use both Neutral
BIT0122-Amit wrote:Does not necessarily mean that eclipse will stop getting better, will roll over, and then netbeans will prevail. Does it?
Nope. Ofcourse not. It's more likely that none of them will be clearly ahead of the other in foreseeable future.
BIT0122-Amit wrote:A good product is the one that reaches the most population I heard.
Exactly. Like i said. Eclipse used to be better. But right now, i don't think that It's smart to say Eclipse is better than Netbeans and vice versa.
BIT0122-Amit wrote:Like I said, I gained those knowledge when the moment I installed them. And they came in handy when I configured them in eclipse.
I do not know about others, but I believe that if people needs to use apache in eclipse, they at least need to know about how to configure apache.
Doesn't answer my question though. But hey, I've learned to "configure apache" alright, but for me, "my personal way" was better than "your personal way". I guess It's a matter of taste? lol!
BIT0122-Amit wrote:LOL. Our debate drifted from "Is eclipse better than netbeans" to "I have better reasons to like (IDE) than yours!!" :p
I'm sorry i must have misunderstood, but i thought you were talking about how "eclipse shall prevail" and i was talking about why "It's more likely that none of them will prevail"? lol!
BIT0122-Amit wrote:BTW:/ that's very dirty playing you know.
I guess it is. Well, I'm back right now.
BIT0102-Mohaimin wrote:I am not clear about the Usability part, what kind of configuration are you talking about?
Nope. I'm talking about how you have to explicitly show the bin, lib, makefile etc type of things when you try to add a new supported framework (for example Qt) to Eclipse. Netbeans detects and configures these things by itself, if the framework is supported.
BIT0102-Mohaimin wrote:The user-view part. Are you talking about the perspective thing in eclipse?
Nope. Personally, i find the perspective thing useless. And i guess the change should automatically done the moment you create a project, in background, without explicitly notifying the user.

I'm talking about how you'll have to choose a specific tool for a specific type of project. I mean, when you want to develop a "Type A" project, you'll have to create it using a specific plugin "A". I felt this when i tried to create a JSF using Java EE project type. You'll have to know that JSF is in the Dynamic Web Project plugin. This is confusing sometimes.
BIT0102-Mohaimin wrote:Both Shakhor and Rayhan told that Eclipse is slower! I dont think so. You are saying eclipse load less things, I am saying, eclipse loads only the necessary things.
In slower PCs Eclipse tends to run faster - a fact i can't ignore. But if you have a reasonably fast PC, Netbeans will run faster, no matter how you see it. The full Netbeans package loading all the unnecessary plugins will load and run faster than Eclipse JEE. For equal features sets, for example Eclipse PDT and Netbeans PHP, Netbeans will still be faster.

I guess it's understandable, because all the plugins in Eclipse run on a framework. This additional abstraction layer is bound to cause additional overhead.
BIT0122-Amit wrote:please check this link:
http://netbeans.org/kb/docs/java/import-eclipse.html
Personally, i think switching to a new IDE is whole lot more than just importing projects. There are issues like custom libraries, version control which are bound to take substantially more time.

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Re: Eclipse || Net Beans || IntelliJ || Other

Post by BIT0122-Amit on Fri Nov 19, 2010 5:30 pm

Exactly. That's why I'm saying for any arbitrary language A, Netbeans is equally good as Eclipse.

Meh. And that's where I keep saying that eclipse has better adaptability.

I can say that both of them lost popularity to some third party, i guess?
Yeah Neutral

Speculation. I'm talking about facts here.
hey, I said "Is it me or..." Obviously it is.

I guess It's a matter of taste?

that's why I kept telling :/ Let the users determine which one suits them Razz

I guess it is. Well, I'm back right now.

Good to see you back. *bearhugs*

I never heard of the third one, IntelliJ.
Jetbrains is considered to be the best out there Neutral Sujan sir uses IntelliJ Neutral

I'm sorry i must have misunderstood, but i thought you were talking about how "eclipse shall prevail" and i was talking about why "It's more likely that none of them will prevail"?

Nah, I was talking about eclipse and netbeans are both improving, but in the end, eclipse might gain the advantage. and you were drawing crude conclusions to eclipse crudely :/


For equal features sets, for example Eclipse PDT and Netbeans PHP, Netbeans will still be faster.

Can not deny. I certify that netbeans php is faster than eclipse PDT.
eclipse PDT with no plugin takes about 8-9 seconds to start.
Netbeans PHP takes about 5-6 second.

But all eclipse versions actually include the java version by default. And you can not do java projects using netbeans PHP.
Eclipse PDT also includes support for JScript.

can you check the netbeans java vs eclipse java ?

Also, eclipse PDT includes an internal browser by default. this helps to check out the results really easily. But in netbeans, though there are plugins (one is for windows only, the other.. can't make it work), it uses external browser.

All this advantages in exchange for 2 seconds Neutral

BTW, if it is time you really want.. then try vim+some other plugins for auto complete+php plugin.

It will still take only 1 second to load Razz Although Vim is not an IDE, but simply an editor.

Review based on PHP:


Eclipse+Aptana: Pretty decent. Auto fix works well.
Aptana Studio 3: BAD. It hiddenly tries to download premium version demo things, and it does not allow user to tweak settings :/
Netbeans PHP: Pretty good looking. The current version has some bugs. The latest nightly build is supposed to fix them. So I will have to check them out.

And guess what? Aptana studio is also based on eclipse framework. minus most of the user settings.

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